To Cancel Or Not To Cancel? Transcript

00:00 Donald Trump canceled the police. Absolutely fucking canceled. What about Kanye West or Hannah brown or Jeffree Star? Should anyone be canceled? Stay tuned for page and eyes. Thoughts on cancel culture and 2020?

00:51 Hello, you for your friends? What it is. I was enthusiastic because I'm excited that we're back, and it's not as like depressing and awful as our last episode, not awful, and so bad. You know what? I mean? The tone was my little later this week. We're just gonna shoot the shit about cancel culture of it. We are. And I'm about to crack. Open a brewski. Hmm. Did you hear that? It's actually not a game. It's a truly. Am I allowed to say that on here? Turn on sponsored. Okay, you can say around,

01:22 we don't have to be sponsored by cruelly to say their names. I'm drinking a passion fruit. Truly. I feel like who won Euphoria would drink this. Some are gorillas. BB would definitely be drinking trigger. Levy would absolutely be drinking like although I feel like she'd be more white cloth, like the whole girl squad would drink, truely's. I think, like, Cassie and Maddie would drink chilies. I feel like BB would drink a white cloth. I think why? Cause a little more girls, a little Trash here, but they're kind of one in the same. Totally. They're all kind of Trout, whatever. I'll take it. I'll be busy tonight and obviously

01:52 pit on this truly. Yeah. Well, you're right though. Why? Cause a little Trash here? It has truly their flavors or less. Good. Chili is a little more esteemed. Well, you know, last week was great. We had a lot of great topics to cover. But today, we're kind of going down a different route, but it's all still relative to a lot of the conversation that's going on. We decided we wanted to talk about cancel culture because it's just super prevalent right now. The media on social media,

02:23 you name it? It's out there. Everyone's talking about it because of recent events that have taken place. Who do we cancel? Who do we support? It's like, oh my God, they said this like 25 years ago. Like, should we not buy their product anymore? Yeah, I don't to a certain extent. I understand why people get overwhelmed and kind of don't care anymore. Meaning, they don't care enough to put the effort in to cancel someone because there's a lot of shit out there that probably bleah should be canceled. It isn't. Yeah, I mean, cancel culture

02:53 is very youth adjacent. Very social media. Twitter was that canceled culture like interact in our parents. Very, very entertainment industry adjacent. So it feels quality relevant everything. We're talking about. I mean, if you want to get into the history of it, I think we should a minute. Should we do updates first? I should be good. Dick deep diving into candle holder. Let's do the updates first. Okay, we'll just a thief or a of days. We're just really excited. If you can't tell I'm being sarcastic questions.

03:24 I know I run my mouth of really fast, but I do feel like we need some euphoric updates. Zendaya, Our Queen. She's been posting her book. Bulgari Bulgari, but I said, all right. Well gauri. I have a I have a necklace from them, but I can't even name it. I know I do know it but like every time I see it, I get self-conscious because I've heard sometimes it's spelled differently too. By the way. Well, they use the use the stylized like Latin you. Which looks like a V and it's confusing their branding, that's confusing

03:54 and you feel like an idiot if you say it wrong, right? Because he like 10 like I mean, you know, you can't say both like Bulgari bull very like, it's Bulgari. Well, she's been posting her while she actually didn't post but they posted their campaign with her. So that's been circulating through all the fan accounts. All I want to say is one of the quotes on her post was, or on the Bulgari post said, Zendaya. Icons are Never Lie. Fuck. I can't

04:24 even read my own handwriting to icons are never too much. There you go. I feel like that is so icons are never too much. That's so Quincy. Yeah, true icons are never too much. That's like the slogan for her. Yeah. I thought it said the icons are never too much. Also, the icons like 1,000. That's a weird color again. Well, she's a true icon and she's never too much. She's definitely not even a little bit too much. She's like, it's a weird. Slow going to pair with her, because she's so low-key. That sounds just like, not even a little

04:54 bit. She's like, yeah, the slogan you should use if you have like the most over-the-top that's like Paris. Hilton's like exactly like. So, yeah, it doesn't feel. She doesn't need a slogan like that. No, but she's super adorable. And we add. She's rocking that jewelry. She's iced. She looks great. She's great hunter. Some news, hers is all pretty serious. She hasn't been posting, anything weird. Out of the ordinary. She's still very much out there, supporting the black Trans Community,

05:24 which is great Arie posted, on our Instagram story, as well as added to our dock, five of the organizations that she listed in one of her posts. So if anyone's interested in donating or signing petitions, check out our Link in BIO also, I'm really impressed by how many Euphoria and shared our anti-racist resources. Nice. No really. It was like being circulated by a lot of fan accounts that have huge following. So Thank you so much. Because yeah, I've been all day. We're yeah, we

05:54 joke around and we shoot the shit on this podcast, but that was actually a labor of love. And it's something that's really important. So, thank you for sharing. I mean, look, if you even like five people like saw that enacted, that'd be like a huge win. Like, I'd be served on that. So like, I mean, as you go down the funnel lesson, like it's like shared with, like x amount of people how many people open and how many people actually do anything, but even if like five people did anything, Yeah, you fuckin. Is there a way to track that I should look into that? I've just been looking at people sharing it and there's been

06:24 a lot of people on our Instagram sharing it. So thank you so much to anyone that did we appreciate it so much. Hell yeah. Well, so yeah, Jacob, Jacob lordy. So kissing booth to comes out very soon. I am so stoked. Alex is over here. He's in it, right? Yeah. Okay, so he's in it, but it's what we were talking about whether he might not be in it or something at some in some former. So a lot of people didn't really like, I mean, I was not, you know, I'm not a Jacob, a lordy

06:54 Super Fan meeting. I love him, but I didn't follow him before Euphoria. So I'm not quite sure they were filming it before you for you so they did film to a while back. So me's. So what you're saying about me thinking he wasn't going to do it. That was just based on me. Be thinking, there's no way he'll do it because he broke up with Joey King who also plays the love interest on that show. They did in real life. It was a bunch of drama. And anyways, so he actually that's

07:24 coming out soon. Go support Jacob. Oh, Lordy, I will absolutely be watching because I moved to Alex's eye-rolling so hard. Yeah, so he is in it. Yeah, he's in it and I guess he's like in Africa during it like, I don't even actually I might just be butchering this all together because I'm a little tipsy from my truly, but I think like he's never actually like with the cast that much, so that just goes to show there. Have been some kind of like agreement going into it. Like I'll do this project. If I don't have to be

07:54 with, like my ex-girlfriend, uh-huh. Because can't actors do that. Yeah, I mean, you can try at least you can negotiate for stuff like that. Well, I feel like, focusing the to, he probably did go in trying to negotiate that because he was, like, the reason it blew up. Meaning, in my opinion. He made the the movie. So I feel like they're not willing to lose him. So I'm sure they were willing to accommodate any of his other times in situations like that. Two people are just like I'm not really. That interested in this product project. So make my role like minor. Let me like homeless teens,

08:24 like off-site and I kind of felt like this in. Like, he seems to it. He seems way to teach ill and professional to have been like, oh, it's my ex girlfriend. I can't do it. So, I think what you just said, is more accurate. He probably just said, I don't really want to do this, but like, yeah, me about. So he did an interview with GQ GQ must really? Yeah. That pretty much was just going over. Over kissing bittu and Euphoria and his roles and both and how. Like he's

08:55 kind of frustrated that the story being putting out there. Is that like he went from kissing booth to you a much more serious role when really like as an actor most the time you go into acting wanting to be in a serious role. You're not like oh God. I hope I land like kissing booth on Netflix and some are, I don't know, but Jacob wasn't. So his interview was really great. I loved it. It was very honest. I like that. He didn't hold back. Keep pretty much said, like Euphoria was what he had been waiting for. He is actually kind of through kissing

09:25 move under the bus but not really like in a nice way. He like kind of was like, yeah, that was like them but this is now let's not talk about that anymore. It sounds like he's kind of pulling the the old Robert Pattinson. Yes, which yeah, I mean he kind of. Can you blame them? No, I don't blame them at all. And I love him as an actor, post Twilight, like he didn't really like enjoy doing that at all. And as soon as it was over, he was Like, let me get into like the weirdest shit possible and like since then, he's proven himself to be a really talented

09:55 actor. And he's also done like incredibly weird, weird project. Hold on, and I wasn't successful one. It's also, that's also a Daniel Radcliffe. Move. He did the same thing. He was like, yeah, Harry Potter's over. I know I'm gonna get naked on stage, and probably about a boy, like, banging, a horse, like cool, but I think it works for ya. They've both done some interesting, weird. Jackson chao-li actually can act. It does be like, Tina icons and from my recent research. I do

10:25 feel like Jacob Lord. He's a good guy. So I take back a lot. What? I said last week. I feel like I was just kind of angry. But like now I'm kind of for him like I read the interview and I'm here for him. Well, here's hoping we get to see him doing some really, really weird shit in the next few years. That and also I really just can't wait because I'm 22 and I will be recapping, Alice won't be joining. But like I'll be recapping that for sure. Back to her. Ergo Barb. She's been posting a lot about our previous home City Portland,

10:55 which right now is super fucked up. I don't want to go too deep into it because that's not the point of the episode today. But, you know, do your research? Look into what's going on in Portland, Oregon. It's really fucking awful. They've said the feds there to basically bash and Baton peaceful protesters. So, she's been posting a lot about that and saying how it's super fucked up. Yeah, not just to be people but like Disappearing people off the street, like, gestapo style, like unmarked Vans, unlike

11:25 unlike uniformed officers. Well, you can't even say their officers. They don't have imagination or uniforms and they're just like nabbing people off the street, which that's not terrifying to you at surface level. It should be. And I'm not going to go into it more than that. But no, but I will say this in our, I will say this though and our Lincoln bio in our anti-racist resource list. There is a petition that you can sign too. To get those, feds the fuck out of there. So please if you have time, go sign that petition because Portland is such a beautiful

11:55 city and I don't want to see them get fucked by deserves router. So other than that storm posted a really cute and suppose of her and her mom dancing about some good news, but they don't reveal what the good news is. I'm dying to know the only rules. Yeah, the only thing they put was hashtag a seed and wings production. So I'm wondering if she's starting her own production company. She could like she's young and smart and has a lot of money. I don't know. Or maybe she's doing a new movie. I don't

12:25 know. But I looked up the production company if that's what it is. And there was nothing to be found. So must be under wraps. Right? Maybe it's like a weird like bio like engineering project where they're going to like try to give seeds wings. That is absolutely not. What storm is doing is leaving. It's like a it's like a team like TV production company. I bet I felt whatever. I feel like, she's probably like, she probably is going to like, I don't know star and produce a film

12:56 of some sort. All right. So we've got Angus Angus, also posted about a young teen movie studio, and it's all based on skaters, Alex. I feel like you'd be really into it. They're called illegal sieve. He posted a really cute picture of him wearing a shirt that said, illegal sieve. Apparently. I did as much research as I could have. Couldn't find a lot other than skating videos on YouTube, but apparently it is In there about me on YouTube. It says, first Teen Movie Studio. So I think he's just out

13:26 there rapping career for that skaters, and then that past like 30 years of proved to be like an incredibly artistic. Yeah people. And there have been some amazing artists that have come out of kind of like the the skate video culture people like Spike Jonze and stuff. No, not really. Yeah. I mean Spike Jones came up doing like skate videos and like jackass and stuff and Then ended up being like a really, really good like talented filmmaker. And I mean there's a bunch of other people

13:56 like that. We already referenced my boy, Jerry schue previously who has his little Brands. I've not little, it's a cool brand sci-fi fantasy. But yeah, I mean, skaters end up doing a lot of really cool shit. But yeah, that's all for Angus. He's just kind of, you know, still out there doing his thing, definitely doing the Lord's work out there protesting still doing all the same shit. Sweet. The only other Recaps were really just Sydney sweetie. She posted a

14:26 funny photo montage of her golfing. So she's she's really leaving her best life. She said might delete ladies in Salem. She's probably golfing at some courses. I play that really. Yeah. Salem's like, I mean, the best golf course is near Salem are if you go Way South or if you go up to Portland, so if she might have to Portland well, then don't go to Portland. City spending stay safe, but Yeah, she was golfing and it was like my delete later if I like soccer golf or something like that. I don't know.

14:56 Shout out. So since many live in her best life, I mean, that she's like, on that full vacation. She deserves it though. That resume man should have had a busy couple of years, so good for her. Other than that, algae. Nothing new. Just favor. Peace, and blessings every day. He's always like posting these posts that are like hustle, like, do your thing like hustle it out today. Favor, please, and blah. Sings on you all, he says that like every day. So, you know, alright. I'm here with algae, favor, peace and blessings, peace and blessings

15:27 favor, not fever, favorite pieces lessons that all Euphoria and Seaver touka round is over. I love algae. I just stand algae so much harder than I used to. I just he's my boy. Oh, yeah, that's it though. That's not the most exciting. But you know Euphoria cos they're always up to something. There's the wrap-up sweet. So now I feel like we should dive into our topic of the episode which is cancel culture,

15:57 cancel culture. What is canceled culture mean to you page, cancel culture. To me means, I'm so, like, you mean, from my perspective. I mean, like, what is it? Yeah, what is can somewhat? Like, I need to have a discussion. We need to have like some agreed-upon definition and mean there's all definitions of it are pretty vague. So what's a patio cancel? Ultra to me means you are canceling an individual. For

16:28 the purpose of discontinuing, their ability, to have an income based on your following. So does that, is that a weird? I visited. It's always in reference to your own following. Like what is your following have to do with cancel? Well, if I'm canceling, someone I'm purposefully removing them. I'm not following them because I don't want to contribute to anything that might give them an income or a platform. Okay,

16:58 so not super about your own following, just more about like a pro. Yeah, cool. Yeah, that's pretty much what I want. The internet says. Usually this is Like a boycott on someone. And I think it's interesting that most definitions of it and most discussions of it talk about a boycott of a person and they usually say like as as you would boycott a business and what I think is lacking about that definition is that these people are also businesses. Are

17:28 busy people that are up for canceling. Anyone that has a high enough profile to be canceled is a business, their personality. Their life, their brand, their social media, everything is monetized. So it's not like you're canceling, a person like you would cancel or boycott a business. You are boycotting a business, you are. And that's how. Yeah, that's I think that's not the definition that you found like the, yeah. I just yeah, I just think a lot of the

17:58 definitions miss that aspect. That it's not necessarily just about the person's cloud or influence. They are literally a business. By removing access to them or support for them. You're not only just like decreasing their visibility. You are essentially boycotting a business. Now, which I stand by 100% And that to me has always been the definition. So I guess I'll say why I'm the one that like thought of this topic and Alex was kind

18:28 of like, ooh interesting like why I was thinking with everything going on, you know, especially pertaining to the black lives movement. It's obviously been. A more prevalent conversation because, you know, some of us as we mentioned, last episode are just waking up and realizing that there's a lot of fucked-up shit going on in our country. Others have known about this a long time, but haven't really done much to make changes meaning like they're still following people that promote hate and do stupid

18:58 shit because that's just like the generation. We're in. It's like, oh well, like they said, sorry. It's okay. Like, give him another chance. So I think right now, the reason it's at The conversation is very obvious. It's like we're all trying to be a little more woke. It's like, Whoa, We need to like, take a step back. See who's out there and kind of decide like who should be having a platform right now? Yeah, hopefully this is the time when everyone's re-evaluating who they support and why because

19:29 your support gives them money and influence and there is no way to like mints that term. So let's be super fucking clear about. Get your follow on Instagram, this current, your follow on Twitter, whatever. Like, I mean, there's way more explicit ways like buying their fucking makeup or whatever, but that follow alone, gives them money. Your YouTube view, gives them money. So and it's not just fine. Everybody fucking clear. This is all monetary and it's all about what you

19:59 are doing. So if you follow through, that's a new one. Just flat-out. They're making money off your follow. So, And you might think, I think. Also, I stumble upon the idea of like, but if I unfollow like, is that really gonna make a difference? It's kind of like, what you said. Last episode. They go. If I sign this petition, does it really matter? And you realize through everything that's going on in the world and in the country right now that yes this shit does matter. So yeah, you're one person and you might unfollow and you think it does nothing

20:29 but no, it does something because if you're not doing it, then you can it's safe to assume. No one else is doing well more problematic, I think are not Or problematically. I think more importantly, it should be less about whether it does anything and more about having your own moral, compass and staying true to it. Like you knowingly are contributing to their platform. You're putting money in their pocket. Even if it's not your money, you're putting money in their pocket. So are you morally okay, with doing that for

20:59 this given person. And I think that is a far more important question to ask yourself. Then whether it does anything because sadly, Whole reason, cancel culture is a risen, is that people in power are never held accountable, especially in this country. There is zero accountability for people with power or fame. And that's why cancel culture, and part has arisen. And there may be some aspect of this that we will never be able to get rid of no matter how successful cancel culture may become. Hypothetically.

21:31 We may never be able to hold the people in power accountable and that's a reality that's shitty to Grapple with. But the inverse S of that is that you have to then look at yourself and decide if you are living your life in a way that you're morally, okay? With and that you can move forward. Yeah, so maybe you will never be able to impact this famous person's influence or power or whatever, but you can still influence your own, like your own way of like moving through the world and your life and what you're doing and what you're comfortable, not eventually permits,

22:01 right? Like that. Eventually does like if you have friends or family members that look up to you or hopefully, yeah, you would hope. So, I went about and asked honor insta stories. A couple of questions that I felt were very important to open this discussion. So the first question I asked was, do you believe in cancel culture on some sort of level? Mmm Alex? What were the stats on this 85% of our fans that responded said? Yes, we believe

22:31 in cancel culture. Obviously 15% then said no, so that's pretty shocking to me. I'm not gonna Gonna lie. I'm just going to lay it all out and then we'll like kind of go over our own. Yeah, but I was pretty shocked by the results. I for some reason thought most of these would be more forgiving but a lot of people were like here for cancel culture. So interesting, the next question was, do you think it's okay to cancel someone who is actively promoting hate on the internet? Yeah,

23:01 88% of people said, cancel him. Which is a good. Well percent of people said give him a second chance. Yeah, that's what 80. It's a good number. Yeah, can we will discuss all this in a sec? And then I asked, you know, this was more of an open question. So it wasn't a pole you could write in if you wanted. I said, if you're okay with canceling, someone, why are you okay with it? I'm not going to read all the answers. I'll read a couple to you Alex and you can kind of like

23:31 tell me your thoughts or laugh or whatever, and I'm keeping them anonymous because I told all of our followers, I would, of course. So we got one response. Honestly, I'm 50/50 on it. Because cancel culture is very toxic. We can go over that a little later. But what are your first thoughts on that? My first thoughts are that, this is, this is something we've encountered when talking to some people in our lives about events that Are going on now, which is that people have a concern.

24:01 That's a real concern, but they get caught up on this real concern. But if you were to list, how many things you're concerned about in order priority. It's insanely low on the list, got it. So to me, it's like, am I concerned that toxic that like cancel culture could become toxic or could go too far? Yes, that's a real concern in a society that prizes free speech as someone that like appreciates comedy. I can see that that concern exists.

24:31 Yeah, but how concerned am I about that in reality? Like very, very little concern. There is real actual fucked-up. Shit happening on the regular. There have been very few examples of cancel culture being so awful or fucked up or toxic that it's like completely fucked up the life of someone totally innocent. So I'm not very concerned about that right now. So it's only yeah, actually, it's an interesting thing to talk about but it's not Ali worth that much time right now to me. Yeah, my only

25:01 two cents would be like is it? I think a lot of people love to focus on kids of culture being toxic when really I think we should be talking about. It's toxic that certain people are not canceled. That would be my. That's all I have to say is I think I think there should be more conversation. It frustrates me that people with huge platforms are very at least most people. I follow with very big platforms are very quick to be, like, cancel culture is toxic like Do not promote it. It's not okay. Like and

25:32 you know why they do that. I'll tell you right now because I work in the industry, A and B. I know friends that are influencers and it's because you make money. Yeah, as an influencer, so you'd be stupid not to promote. Please don't no, no, no, don't cancel people because you're secretly inside. Like if I ever fuck up, I don't want to be killed all those people want their second, their third, therefore fifth chance. So yeah, of course, they're going to say, I don't support it. Like, it's toxic whatever totaling so I'll read like, two

26:02 more. Okay, this person wrote in, I think we should be bringing up people, whether or not they've done bad or good things in their past and address it and show that they've grown. I think this is important. I don't think it's okay to hate someone. If they have grown, especially if there is evidence of them growing, it kind of goes on and on, but in essence, it kind of it's a longer response. They conclude with saying I think often

26:32 celebrities apologize just to get it off their back, but they might not really mean it or be genuine. So yeah that is accurate. What is the understatement of the century? I can't think of a single genuine apology. I've seen from anyone in like fucking ear. No, it couldn't be more obvious that every single one of these apologies is so fucking hackneyed and bullshit and fake and not heartfelt. It's also Strategic, and they're not, it's not even a good quality

27:02 job of being strategic. Like, I know it's usually it's really badly. Really, if you had a true like Crisis management, like expert, or somebody on the hear that like really knew what the fuck they were doing. These apologies would be a lot better but almost every single awesome. They're just bullshit. So, back in our day Alex and I you know where a is 30, huh? I'm approaching 30. But back in the day, I mean,

27:32 you used to have a publicist that pretty much like coach do you through everything and yes, like actors have this still musicians whatever but it's definitely not as like prevalent today, especially for influencers like damn managers. They don't have publicist most the time or if they have them their trash. Yeah, cuz I see like just trash PR from influence. I don't think they do is what I'm saying. I really don't think most do unless their celebrity. E level my fucking shirt because I would save them millions of

28:02 dollars. I know they're horrible. Like, I'll list a very quick example. Without going down a rabbit hole when the whole James Charles thing came about cancel culture, kind of got brought up again and like a very strong like overnight viral like drama. There was all this shit going down. To people brought it up as a topic, and his apology video was appallingly, bad. It was like, the worst apology I have ever seen in my life and Like maybe he didn't need to apologize which is funny because now all this shit's coming

28:32 out that everything that was said about him was wrong. But he apologized for we really do apologize. I know but he's done plenty of sauce stuff 100% but I'm saying his apology video was like a laughingstock. Yes. So, yeah, everyone's apology video. So the last one I'll say is one of our followers said, because Fame is like a knife and that made me laugh because I didn't really understand that response because it's like it. If you are okay with canceling someone why are you okay with it? And the answer was

29:02 because Fame is Like a Knife. What you have to say to that. I'm really trying to laugh at like I'm glad they responded by mean. I don't know if this is what they intended. But my interpretation is that thing is dangerous and if you pick up the proverbial knife and play with Fame, you know that you're in for some shit and the consequences might be high. So potentially you could be canceled and you have to be okay with that as an influencer going into the game, so Only if that was what they meant by it. I really like it. And if not,

29:32 I'm honest funny. It's kind of cryptic and cool. But so the other question I'm not going to read too many responses because they were all the same. It was just if you're not OK with canceling someone why are you against it? Literally every single response we got was essentially just saying I believe in second chances. Mmm. So then the very last question I asked was, do you feel pressure to allow people? Second Chances Alex? What were our results are results of that question? Ian were 55 percent of people said that they did

30:03 feel pressured to give people second chances. I mean, that's super interest which is, that's a lot of people. Half of more than half said, they felt some degree of pressure to give someone a second chance. It's, it's what you make it as fade. What do you think about second chances? I don't know. So I'm more, you know, Alex and I are very cutthroat people. We have very strong opinions, right? But I would say, I am a Little like a little more forgiving than Alex,

30:33 like you're more full-blown. Like, nope. You're out. I'm kind of like, it depends for me. I, it's not that I don't believe in second chances. It's just that. It's like what you just said earlier to me. That's not relevant. I don't really give a flying fuck. If this person gets a second chance because I'm feeding them money by following them. They're getting ahead of me. In life, they are living a very luxurious, Beautiful

31:03 Life, most influencers, make a pretty penny. Let me tell you because once again, I work in this industry. I know they make a lot of money. So for me, I don't really care about Second Chances and I don't know them personally. So like if you're asking you what I give, Alex Miller, a second chance. If he fucked up, yes, because I know you, I love you. I know a lot about you. Like I could go on and on and on and influencer, I don't know shit about you. So I don't care if Do something that's fucked up in my eye, but the fans out there ain't that the fans think

31:34 they know them. The whole, the whole influence. Our relationship is designed to give you the feeling that, you know, that person. Absolutely, when you really, you don't at all sure. But I would say, yeah, you absolutely do not know these people. You could think, you know, you and me and Alex. Yeah, quick reminder. You don't know what shit about any influence, hurry for. I mean, it's all a fucking little more on authentic, than most people. But even then it is a dog. An illusion. Everything is an illusion. I think absolutely. Yes, and I think if you don't

32:04 think that then you're really like you need to wake up. Yeah. So for me, it's not that I don't believe in a second chance for a human being. It's that I don't really believe in second chances for influencers because by giving them that platform in that quote on quote chance, it's like you're just like still funding there like glamorous beautiful life and it's like but why? I don't know what unless they're just like this. Amazing. Person doing a lot of good in the world. I don't really care to give someone a second chance, but that's just

32:34 me. Here are my thoughts on it. I think there's two things. Number one. I'm also I think everyone. Sorry, girl. There you go. All I will say is Allison. I have a little bit different. I feel like our answers are coming from different places because I'm thinking mostly YouTube Tick-Tock Instagram. I feel like you're thinking like music celebrity something. It's I think it's Universal. I'm just making sure like to me these laws are Universe. Okay, cool. Just double-checking. So my thoughts on it are this first of all, everyone approaches the

33:04 discussion of canceling as if it is, someone's life. It's not this isn't whether I would give someone a chance at life. Like I'm not going to I'm not condemning this person to death. It's approached in very accountable. It's not it's not tied with that. It's their fucking job. It's their job. We're talking about, should someone essentially lose their job. Over something over saying the n word over doing something really

33:34 shady over, like making jokes about be about pedophilia like, should someone lose their job over something like that? Yes, to me. Hands down. I don't, I've never experienced a work culture, and I don't really want to experience a work culture where something like that happens, and you don't get fired. You should fucking get fired for that. And that's pretty like, self-explanatory to me. So I feel like everyone gets very impassioned. And about this and acts, like you're trying to like murder this person, or like they should be sent to hell for

34:04 this and it's like, no, they just should lose their fucking job. Well, so I'm going to cut you off just for a second. The reason that that's all tied into this is because I 100% agree with you. Yes, but it's been twisted and turned and the reason influencers are so sensitive to it. At least the reasons they say they are are because the trolls online are so. So, like evil and bad that like they're literally like Wishing suicide. So like if you have a platform of let's say, you know, over 15

34:34 million people following you and a couple million of those, people are telling you to let go. Hang yourself first a mistake, you made. That is why most people say, cancel culture is toxic because it literally leads these young kids who have this platform that's career to like being suicidal, which is fucked up. Like, we're not for that. Obviously, you and I are not, but but Fame is like a night. And if you get famous and if you choose As Fame and choose this career path, you have to know that this is something that comes with the territory. Absolutely.

35:04 Just or like, doesn't mean literally on its way on its surface level. If you are choosing a career as an influencer, you have to be comfortable accepting that you will get death threats. Like if I want to sit down with some and I'm an aspiring influencer as like a manager career coach, I'd say are you okay with the possibility that you will receive death threats? And this is like the reality and people but people don't talk about this people. Like just gloss over this shit. It's like this is a career and any career you enter into you have to decide whether you're

35:35 suited for you. Don't like don't have to be tough skin, but you have to decide am I good match for the realities of this career. And if you're not, then you should not pursue that career. I a, the career of being an influencer, and a public Persona comes with some great upsides and some really fucked-up, downsides. So yeah. Fame is like a knife, like you're gonna get death threats. If you're an influencer or you have to at least be comfortable accepting. Ting the possibility that you might. So yes this happens and it's fucked up and I'm not supporting that.

36:05 But this isn't related to cancel culture if you're an influencer and you never do anything fucked up, you're going to probably get that totally like Sophia Bush. She's like huge activists that I follow. She was on One Tree Hill. She's got a very large following, she gets that that's every day and she hasn't ever been canceled, or has been brought up as someone who makes mistakes. But like you just said that made me think of that. It's like, do she receives death threats? Hurley daily so. So I don't see with you but I all I will say though. Is that what are your thoughts

36:35 though? On when celebrities people of platforms, bring up the point where they're like, but this should not be an issue. We shouldn't have to be signing on the dotted line. Saying, yes, we are. Okay, with people threatening our lives, but doesn't matter. That's just an existence. Just you just or in real should accept the not try to change. I think is something you can try to change it, but I think to say otherwise is to ignore reality. People are people and human beings have been Savages fought for all of eternity. So if you were going to be in the public eye, you were going to face Savages,

37:05 fuck people. And it's great. If you want to Advocate to change that and maybe someday it'll change, but the reality right now is that, that's the deal. So you're not know, sadly don't understand. Is it's just, it really isn't something that you can like, measure or change. Hmm. There's no like measurable action. Like you can't like have a petition and say, hey, let's sign to, like never send a death threat to a celebrity. Like that's just not. Don't like

37:35 change. It's not gonna happen. Yeah, that's tough. Weren't we can't even fucking get like white supremacy out. So you're not going to stop receiving so I can see you're not going to stop when like, we as a country know that there are people that have committed murders and we know their faces and their names and we're doing nothing about it. So you getting an anonymous vague death threat on Twitter is Not ever going to be something that really goes away. Like but that on that note, you read me, some interesting news about Justin Bieber didn't

38:06 share. Okay. It's not relevant to you for it, but it's relevant to the topic of cancel culture. Yeah, a court is allowing Justin Bieber to subpoena Twitter for the identity of two. Women that falsely accused him of sexual assault, which I think is great because the anonymity of the internet leads to a lot of fucked-up. Shit personally. I approached all If like if you're going to put something down on paper or on the Internet, you should your husband, your fucking name. Did that shit and saying, this is what I believe and I stand

38:36 by it, so I don't mind this. But anyways, getting back to cancel a culture. My first thought on it is this like this extremity where it's like, you're acting like, you're ending someone's life. My second thought on it is that second chances are earned not given, I have no interest in giving someone a second chance, but if this person disappears, From the public eye and then spends years doing great work and philanthropy or learning or starts a project or just works their way back in the

39:06 good graces of the public. Then I can accept the idea of them having earned a second chance. They have shown that they learn from their experience. Like I am not anti second chance, but Second Chances are earned not given. You have to go and act like the famous quote, laughs, Alex Miller, Second Chances are earned. You fucking work. Like I'm not gonna just hand you a second chance just because you got on YouTube and said, I'm sorry. You haven't done anything yet. You haven't shown that you've changed.

39:36 You've said you're going to change. You've promised you're going to change but I don't give a fuck like true, go disappear become better, and then you can come try again. And if you've done a good enough job, then you can earn a second chance. And if you do a shit job, then you can go fuck off again. That's actually like Alex, that's like a famous quote. Like, I feel like that should be on your Graves. Stone, thank you. I mean, I'm not wishing death upon you, but like if you did tie might be like, well, Alex is last like really profound words were a second chance is earned

40:07 not given. So those are my thoughts. I like smell like Second Chance letting everyone likes. I like the idea of a second chance to, but it has to be the store. It has to be a Redemption story. You have to go actually like work hard and earn it. So what's our next point that we kind of want to like dive into on this topic, so I thought it was interesting to talk about There's all this discussion of cancel culture and stuff but is cancel culture even effective. Does it ever result in actual change,

40:38 which is ahead and is interesting because I just watched the story of someone from my high school. That's a big influencer today. I won't, you know, put her on the spot, but she posted something about cancel culture and how it's just so awful for influencers because some of these influencers work so hard. Hard to like build their business from the ground up and if they make one mistake, you're like taking away their business, obviously, you know, Alex and I stand on that, which is great good. You should lose your best. Yeah, your job

41:08 is to have a tension that makes me realize what a, what a waste of energy and time to even discuss that on a platform where you have hundreds of thousands of followers. How about you talk about things? It's just taking place in real life that you can actually create change for. So you saying that out, Made me realize why waste your time and energy talking about not promoting cancel culture when no one is ever fucking canceled. There's no proof of any one really ever fucking being

41:38 canceled. I mean, that idea alone is disgusting, like it's your job. And if your job is to have attention to detail to put out public statements and pieces of work publicly on behalf of a brand yourself, or say like, say, like, you run a Twitter account for a company, your job is to be attentive to detail and not make some monumental. Fuck up on behalf of the brand, even if the brand is yourself. And if you do you should expect to get fired like or have space some consequence like for your mistake. Well,

42:09 I think come on. Will you leave fair that I don't run nothing. Pretty relevant work. Yeah, one that's having a job like one. That'll bring up. That's pretty relevant. Is Hannah Brown on? Is that our name? I honestly don't even know they don't care if she's on that. She was on The Bachelor, but it was a big huge Scandal, because right before the black lives movement. I've started, she said the n-word on her to talk and a lot of people of mainly, I hate to say it, but mainly like conservative idiot like white basic

42:39 girls, but a lot of them were like, give her a second chance. She didn't mean to, and what you just said earlier. It's earned. It's not given. It's like, yeah, I'm not here to say like, I don't think she deserves to be, you know, have get death threats. I don't deep deep down. I don't, I cause I I won't say any more on it, but I don't think she deserves. Death threats, but I do think she deserves to lose her business. Yeah, because guess what like you just said if she worked at seek where I work and you used that word tweeted out but I mean that out you'd be fired get fired.

43:09 That's why there should be fired. Meaning, I don't think she should get the influence or glamorous life. She has. I think that should be a lesson and you move on with life, right? But no, she's thriving and is doing better than ever. So it's I just wanted to bring that up as an example of something where I'm like, I understand that. That's I don't I don't really I understand why people want to promote this like language of, let's not engage in cancel culture. It's like why not? Yeah, why not? There's no one ever learns. If you don't cancel their business, if you don't fire them from their job, they don't learn right? And like

43:39 I said earlier, it's hard for people in power to be held accountable. And this is a small way that people have some degree of the possibility of holding someone accountable for their actions. And on the topic of like holding people accountable that kind of Harkens back to the history of Hello culture, which traditionally comes out like a black civil rights movement. Boycott saying absolutely like we don't have the ability to do anything

44:09 about businesses that are white supremacist or doing this because we're not supported by the law, but we don't have to spend money there. And as a sizable population, you can hurt them by not spending your money there. So the tradition of cancel culture goes back to that, which is just like, All the protests and everything that's going on right now. Disenfranchise, people without power have used, what they do have which is always numbers and money to to impact

44:39 influence change or to hit him where it hurts the pocketbook. Yeah, exactly. And the term itself comes from New Jack of well. The first usage is in New Jack Swing, with her New Jack City with Wesley Snipes. Excuse me. We're, he tells it's a classic. It's a massage. In this joke where he tells a woman that she is canceled and to get him another hoe or something. He tells a manager, like get it. It's some other like paid woman in here, like she's cancelled and then Lil Wayne

45:10 reference that on a song and like 2010. And then it started being used on black Twitter in like 2012 or between 12 and 15. So that's really where it all stems from as far as we know the history of the term. Yeah. Wow, so, I don't know the history of cancel culture and the can't the word. Cancel. Damn. I mean it makes sense. But yeah, back on the topic of like, whether it's even effective or not. I think we've seen that it can like damaged people in the pocketbook sales-wise, like people,

45:40 like Jeffree Star getting like makeup deals. Cancelled are getting Dropout, huge Brands, but in terms of like truly canceling people, I was looking into like who has ever been successfully fully cancelled and almost no one has I think there were there were only four people I could come up with with where, where by pretty much all definitions. They were fully totally and always canceled and their Harvey Weinstein. Bill Cosby, Kevin Spacey and jussie Smollett.

46:11 Wow. I mean, the only for even be fair like our Kelly still saw a huge rise in their streams from the publicity of their like cancellation or their scandals or whatever. So they still made net-net more money than they were making prior to being. Also, it's hard to consider someone canceled, if they're making more money than they were before resting. Well, those the list. You just named though. I'm like, laughing to myself cuz I'm like, yeah, I mean, none of those. I'm I have a problem with being cancelled fully. Yeah.

46:41 Bye and they're big boys, right? Yeah. Yeah. And ever comedians. I want to iterate canceled, but still went on to like sell out shows and I have special sir that it's like, smell it from you, is honestly one of the worst. Yeah products not guy. Right. That's the guy that did the hate crime against himself. Yeah, you basically like faking a crime. That is like the lowest of the low that story shook with me to my was a wild one. Yeah, but those are the only four people I could.

47:11 I could really say that I could personally came across when I was late cause bi-weekly canceled. I think that's some shit people would give excuses far because that The Cosby Show was such a big hit. You know what I mean though, like, yeah, it probably not saying he shouldn't be cancelled. It probably helps that. He's not like still really working. He was people might give them a chance until I don't use an awesome. No. No, I don't think so. I'll change my scenes in jail. Well, yeah, Kevin Spacey just I don't think has really been able to work since

47:42 then, like you like even movies that were in production where he had finished his filming, they like him. He filled it with another actor House of Cards is like, I say, yeah, he was pretty, pretty fully. I don't even know who was on that show Empire. Fire And as far as I know, he hasn't been able to do anything good. He should never see a good example of cancel culture. Good canceled by yeah, so small it. Yeah. There you go. Damn. Well, thanks for looking that up. I actually

48:12 those are good. Those make sense in other words, but but it's astounding to me that there aren't more on that list. Yep. So here's a, here's another question for you. Who is the number one person you want to see canceled? That is a tough question, Alex. Okay, I'll start off by saying the obvious that neither of us can say is Trump because we absolutely want him canceled. That's pretty ya. Da da. I know, but I'm just putting that out there so that no one understands it.

48:42 So that everyone understands where I stand. Mine would have to be Logan and Jake Paul. That's my number one would agree with that. I think I'm still making plenty of money. I have no empathy. I have no sympathy. I don't care. They've made multiple egregious, disgusting their trash unforgivable mistakes, not even mistakes. Um, unforgivably fucked up. Militia intentionally fucked up, malicious

49:12 shit and They haven't even asked for a second chance. It's not like they like went out and said, sorry. I mean, when I say that, I mean, like, they didn't even try. It's like, they did like the classic PR round of interviews with like, Good Morning America. I mean, they've done it all but it could not be more scripted. Mmm, and I'm just over it. I can't believe they still not only have a platform but like you said

49:42 they make money and probably more money than they ever. Of and I have nothing else to say. Other than I think they're disgusting. And if they ever listen to this, I hope they do and I hope you boys are canceled. Yep. I definitely saw that one. Logan and Jay. Paul. You heard it here first. Yeah, I agree with you. Oh, you heard it here for the thousandth fucking time. Why are they not canceled agree with that hands down? Who's your? Who are yours? All right, who's your purse don't know?

50:12 I think it's hard to. It's hard to say. There's so many, I'm very much in the camp of cancel, everyone. I'm, I just want everyone to be canceled, and but I think right now I would have to say, Kanye West, because he continues to be incredibly irresponsible, with his platform, in disseminating false, and damaging information, and supporting Trump. And so many, There are things. I mean today. Today Tom

50:43 tell our listeners today. They haven't heard yet today. He was slandering. Harriet Tubman like, was saying that she just brought black people to work for like new white Masters. Yeah, like these are the kind of discussions were. You can't even like, talk about that? It's just so it's hard. It's, I think, I think people said this a long time and I'm will acknowledge it. I think Kanye West has needed and still. Needs like some degree of like treatment

51:13 or medication or therapy or something. Like he typically does not come across as like stable in most of these things. But yet he still treated very much like this is all like normal and sane and like rational stuff. And I guess actually this brings me to someone I want cancelled even more than Kanye West. I want Kris Jenner, canceled more than Kanye West. I think Kris Jenner is one of the most problematic Like people in all of American Media and everyone ignores

51:43 it, everyone ignores that she pimped out. Her children, all of her children from an age. When they were too early to consent to build a media Empire off of them at the clear expense of their mental, health, Kourtney Kardashian, beginning and now she and she is now drawn in Kanye West and does the same thing to him. I think it could not be clearer that Kanye West needs help to especially to someone that close to him and yet She's out here. Basically, like supporting his political campaign saying,

52:13 she wants to be part of it or as vice president or whatever. Like essentially like honoring his insane like delusion of grandeur and buying into like his like Bizarro Fanny's heard it here. First. Alex wants Chris Jenner canceled. I think she'd agree. Yeah, I think it's disgusting and I'm very disappointed that everyone just continuously like a spot looks up to her as like this like businesswoman when it's like, yeah, if you want to classify a business Route, 1. So ruthless that she's like pinch around children and

52:43 then yeah, she is that but I don't think that that's the model of like a successful businesswoman. We want to look up to like there are a businesswoman women that are compassionate and also successful and I don't disagree with you. But if we go down that rabbit hole will be here awhile. I don't disagree with you, though. I do think she's very problematic in many ways, but I would not cancel her I would cancel con. Yes, I agree. That's what those are. My, those are mine and as a As a closing thoughts. I think as a closing point, this is a rabbit

53:13 hole. We are not going to go down at length, but I think it's one of the most interesting and difficult questions about canceled. People is what do you do about their work? What do you do when this person is a great artist that has produced film or music, like your whatever amazing stuff. Like what do you do? If you can all agree, that, that person is problematic and should be canceled. What do you do about the body of work? They've accumulated? So like, Like how do you like Michael Jackson her Kelly like doing about their legacy and their work.

53:43 Do you still like play MJ at your like school? Dance? Do you still like, listen to our Kelly on the weekends when you're drinking? Like what do you think about that? I think that's really tough. And like you said, I think that we could talk about that for another 30 minutes, so I won't go too in depth, but I do think I do think a lot of these things are situational, but I guess my personal stance on it is that since the revolution is amped up recently. I might have different thoughts. I used to be more of a person

54:14 that was a little more passive and a little more like I can separate the art from the person but lately my thoughts have been changing a bit. So I'm not going to sit here and say I'm a perfect person, meaning I'm not going to not play like Thriller around Halloween, like that's just That's not where I'm at yet, but one day I might be so I'm kind of like in the middle. I'm trying to figure it out for myself. I think I've come up with like some rudimentary ground rules for myself, which is

54:44 mostly about money and appreciation for work. And my the way I think about it is this you could any work by anyone can be appreciated on its own, but you can't cannot and should not look at it in a vacuum. You can acknowledge that there are Our issues with the Creator and talk about that and talk about its relation to the work. But you can still appreciate the work for what it is for its impact for its influence in history or whatever.

55:15 But the second part of that is the money, which is do you want to give that person money? And for me the answer is always no, so if the person is already dead, which is very often the case. I mean, we have hundreds and hundreds. I mean there's thousands of years of human history and Lots. Let's like not mince words. Tons of the great art of all Humanity has been created but incredibly fucked up. People. Yeah, but they're dead. So consuming their art has no impact on you don't, you're not supporting their career. You're not giving

55:45 them money. You're also not giving them a platform at their dad. There are dead. So you should you can and should have conversations about them and what's problematic about them, but you cannot can and should also appreciate the work for what it is, but when people are alive, I am staunchly. No give Them no money, but a lot of the time, that's super simple. Like if you want to listen to our Kelly's music, just don't do it from like his official YouTube channel or whatever. Like do like just find the like non official

56:15 version. Like it's usually really easy also, read our room. I need you to everyone. Like, do you know what I mean, though? If you're in a room full of women at like a party, maybe don't put on our Kelly, it's not the best luck. I mean, that's a whole other discussion, but I'm talking right now about like, where are you? Your money and where it goes, if you listen to someone's official stream on Spotify, if you watch their official video on YouTube on their Channel or whatever, did they are making money? So don't do that. If you still want to appreciate the work, find

56:45 a way that doesn't give them money which is usually incredibly easy. Totally fucking get on the Pirate Bay. Like it's like 2008 like whatever. Just you know, there are tons of ways to power our content. So bother like spend the time to not to make sure you're not. Giving them money to add my concluding thoughts to all of this. Can we please take pride in that? There's probably no one from me for you. Hopefully that will ever be canceled. Let us hope you for acosta's. Just they

57:16 are not to be canceled. Let us hope candle holder. Does not exist and euphoric there. So euphoric they rise above no hope for anything in the world, but I will say that it seems very unlikely that anyone on the Euphoria Castle do anything - Anytime soon agreed and also most all say but I and I feel like season 2 will be, I really have very high hopes for season 2. I'm just a better not rush it out the park. I think mold. They've got the time. God damn. It's

57:46 delayed enough. I know. Well that was a good discussion. I really like what we talked about. I think that was all good shit. I hope you all were able to, I don't know, get a little more insight. Thank you for participating by the way and all the questions. We asked it was really interesting to hear. I hear that pretty much 50/50, people felt pressure and cancel culture. Which yeah, but don't feel pressured. Yeah, don't feel pressured like this is why we have these discussions, right? It's that you can learn and do your own research and have a brain of your own. Make your

58:16 own decisions, like Alex and I said, many times do things for you. Don't give a shit about what anybody else thinks. If you don't like someone, you want to cancel them, you don't that doesn't mean go and shoulder Instagram and tell them that you wish they were dead. It means do not support unfollow. And Make an interchange. Yep. Agreed hold everyone to a fucking high standard, people can and should do better. So old that you better to hold people to higher standards. Yes. There's nothing wrong with that. Nothing wrong with that.

58:46 And I hate one more last note that I forgot to say earlier, as I hate that people make cancel culture, sound - I think it's a positive. We should be cancelling out hate. It's not okay. It's like what we said in the last episode about racism. It's not okay, you know who makes Ansel culture Sam - influencers because they get to turn the narrative and make themselves the victim, which is what they always want to do. They get to be victimized by the the Vigilantes or the mob or whatever.

59:16 When in reality, the people who had to deal with their fucked-up shit or the victim and their the perpetrator of using like a slur saying something fucked up. Like, you're not the victim. You're being held accountable for doing something or doing something fucked up. So yeah, I think that was A discussion. I hope you all gain something from it. I know probably seemed random and not Euphoria related, but we're in kind of a weird limbo. But that being said next week's episode next Tuesday. We will be jumping back to an episode that we were supposed

59:46 to do. Before she hit the fan, which was about Alex and eyes experience in high school. Hey, we want to definitely relate. A lot of the themes to you for you, because we definitely want to bounce back on a on more euphoric content. So, So we're I'm going to post stories on our Instagram and ask questions. Anything you want to know about oxidized High School experience. We're here to tell the tale and also, you know, I don't know, it would be more fun if they related to your for you. So the last time we asked questions a lot of

1:00:16 them were related to drugs. Alcohol sex. So Allison are open book. So lay it out. Ask us the tough questions. We're here to like answer, and have a good time, get drunk and talk about our dumb High School experiences. Yep, so, So on that note, unless you have it. Do you have any other ending note Sol? I don't. So I think we're just gonna do a quick cheers. And we'll see you you for Ian's next week and we'll talk about high school. And how fucked up it is. I don't know. Yep. See you next Tuesday.

1:00:47 Cheers. You can't even hear it.